Wooden Ben Hur tailgate parts

[pfarber]

Spread the word!!

I will be having some wooden tailgates and the oh-so-hard to find tailgate parts made.

My initial run will be of 5 complete wooden Ben Hur tailgates. These will be bolt on, complete units.

No pics as of yet, but master molds are going out in two weeks.

No firm price, but I expect $350-$500 range for a complete tailgate.

Ask questions here, updates will be posted as the project moves forward.

[pfarber]

First part has been mastered. The lower hinge. Pics are below.

The tan stuff in the original casting is putty because the mold will not release if the casting material in in them.

[pfarber]

I finally have one! The uber ridiculously hard to find tailgate hinge. Yo do not want to know what I had to swap for it, but it was worth it!

hinge1.jpg (22.87 KiB) Viewed 29726 times

hinge2.jpg (26.67 KiB) Viewed 29726 times

hinge3.jpg (24.17 KiB) Viewed 29726 times

I he did not have the pin, but this is good enough! I am making patterns and expect to get cast parts back in a few months.

They will NOT be cast steel. Right now it looks like aluminum with steel inserts is the best that can be made. No foundry is willing to do only 30 parts. If you know of one, please PM me.

[retro-roco]

Farber,

You might take a look at these pages... one in particular (Cattail Foundry) is mentioned a number of times.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/sh ... p?t=152287

Otherwise there is a small foundry an hour and a half west of here that I have heard good things about... Spitz Foundry in Hastings Nebraska.

[pfarber]

Most of the foundry's in PA also mentioned them after they told me they would not cast them.

Problem is Cattail shy's away from 'production' parts. Plus cast 'as poured' is probably to risky for a hinge... one good slam of the tailgate an all 3 cast hinges snap right off.

Bronze would probably be a better choice than Aluminum, but way to costly.

I can do aluminum right now, plus I can test them, and if they break then oh well.. they can be remelted for something else.

Not original, but few would know once they are OD.

[pfarber]

Progress report:

Got a hot lead on a foundry to cast the complete hinge.

Will be calling Monday. All the other parts are dead simple.

No idea on price, but I I figure if I can do as much pattern work up front that should save a ton of money.

Hopefully there will be good news shortly!

[pfarber]

Got a place that looks like they will pour the hinges.

I have to make up 6 sets in urethane so they can pour 6 at a time (saves money, they charge per pour, and 3 pours of 6 complete hinges is the most economical).

Production time is a few weeks.. so hopefully they will be back by summer!

Things are looking up for wooden Ben Hur owners!!!

[BillyClanton]

So what happened?
Billy

[pfarber]

Waiting for them to be fit into the a run. Since I specified ductile iron I have to wait for a run of ductile iron. The total casting weight is like 20lbs. They won't melt for less than a ton a work so I have to wait for the end of a run and see if they can pour the hinges.

I knew going in I would be at the tail end of a pour and they needed to fit it in. For the cost its worth the wait. They will let me know when its done so I can send the balance. I only paid for mold charges so far.

Lots of places will pour whatever comes out of the furnace. Since this was a hinge I figured that it was better to get a stronger iron.

Everyone said the same thing. They will fit me in as they can. So a long wait was expected.

[pfarber]

So I call the foundry and they closed! BACK IN 2009!

Nothing major was lost (just patterns.. I still have the originals).

There is a foundry in Nashua NH that I got a lead on.... waiting for a call back.

Thats just a few months wasted

Sad fact is that I got this story from several people I talked with regarding small runs.

Place in Hamburg, PA wasn't interested in anything less that a few tons of metal. Getting 30 of anything out of a foundry seems damn near impossible.

[pfarber]

Got three solid quotes for tailgate parts.

Here's the skinny: There are $100 per complete hinge, or $300 for the 3. Sucks, but that's the way small run castings go.

You're looking at $500 to repop a tailgate with 60% of that for the hinges!

[pfarber]

Here's the email I got regarding the price.

From: Peter Lyons <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Paul Farber - Tailgate Hinge website
To: "xxxxxx" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 4:22 PM

Hi Paul,

These are right up our alley. In ductile iron,without having the part to review, I am thinking in the 45-50 dollar range each. We can do them in A-148 steel. Best guess is around 100 each.

Let me know if you are interested in having us make them.

Thanks,

Peter

Thats $45 for each wing of the hinge.. so $90-100 PER HINGE ASSEMBLY. He does not mention a pattern charge. The other two places were quoting $800 for a pattern, and $1000-1200 for 20 complete hinges (or $50 each hinge qty 20).. but either way its $100 per hinge.

Only good part is that the hinge pin hole would be cast in it... saves a lot of time drilling it out.

[pfarber]

Here's another response I got back from a foundry that 'SPECIALIZES in SMALL RUNS':

> I think there would be something like $800 to $1000 for the pattern, at
> least for both castings. One of the castings is flat backed and it might
> be possible to just mount the pattern cheaply, even the one you've already
> molded into urethane, but the other casting has a parting line that must
> cut strategically through the part for a split pattern. It's not readily
> apparent whether a flat plane parted pattern would fully render the
> geometry and the original casting probably had at least one core if not
> two to create an undercut for the outside diameter of the hinge pin boss.
> The shape could probably be cheated a bit to avoid cores.
>
> If the pattern was $1,000 and the hinge castings were $50 a set, the
> combined cost for each hinge without machining would be $116.00.
>
> If $116 is too much for 15 sets of custom cast ductile iron castings, then
> yes I believe you shouldn't bother anyone with this. Serious people have
> better things to do.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> James
>

Note my bold part. Of the 8 foundries I've contacted, 4 are out of business in less than one year. $1000 for a pattern? Problem is that 'small run' is *still* several hundred parts to a foundry. Their automated machines are not set up to take an original, mold it in sand by hand and get/vent it. Somehow they need a $1000 'pattern' which is a copy of the original cut in half so they can use a squeeze machine to make the cope/drag then assemble the flask. Yes, its quick, but does not lend itself to SMALL runs.

This quote (and the attitude) was just about par for the course... and like I said, the pattern was the biggest part.

If you want to read the 'starting point' of my adventure, and sadly, the ultimate realization of that while these posters sounded negative, it turns out they were 100% completely correct about the industry.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/ma ... un-152287/

[pfarber]

The search continues.. contacted two more foundries and will see what they say. Evidently the key phrase is 'lose pattern'.

I did get one quote back today, $1200 for one pattern (tailgate side) $650 for the other (frame side). The kicker? It was only $20 PER PART. So $400 for the parts, $1850 for the patterns

I may just write Cattail and see if they will do 6 hinges... only costs a stamp.